Episode Four: Katie Gardner, XDress Insta Sensation

Jenny: Welcome to Girl Talk with Jenny Raven, episode four, Katie Gardner. So welcome to this podcast with me, Jenny Raven. I’m delighted to have one of the very first people I met when Jenny became a real person in my life, Katie Gardner. We met on Instagram. Katie, how are you doing?

Katie: I am fine, thank you very much. Absolutely lovely. On this Saturday afternoon, before we get.

Jenny: Going, can you just share with me how you identify?

Katie: I actually identify as a cross dresser, a very serious cross dresser. Ideally I would be Katie full time, as Katie is presented through the apps. But yeah, I actually identify as a cross dresser. I spend an awful lot of my time cross dressing, but unfortunately real life does mean I’d have to dress as a guy during working hours.

Jenny: I feel your pain. I have an almost identical lifestyle, but Jenny is definitely stirring more and more and it may well be that Jenny does come out to play full time. So let’s get into some quick fire questions just so that we can get a sense of what kind of girl you are. So, black or red?

Katie: Black for me.

Jenny: Satin or lace?

Katie: Lace. I’m a lacy girl.

Jenny: PVC or rubber?

Katie: Pvc.

Jenny: To be filmed or to film?

Katie: To be filmed. I’m quite the exhibitionist.

Jenny: Giver or taker?

Katie: Well, probably both as inverse, but ideally taker.

Jenny: Ideal height of heels for walking.

Katie: Well, for walking I would have to stop at 4 inch. Yeah, for walking.

Jenny: Ideal height of heels for playing.

Katie: Oh, the max. We can do, let’s say 7 inches, but if you can find something bigger, I’ll wear them.

Jenny: Ooh, a girl after my own heart. Favourite item of clothing.

Katie: Ideal. An all in one very lacy or silky bodysuit. Favourite costume or uniform, the businesswoman or a schoolgirl.

Jenny: First girly clothes that you wore and.

Katie: Enjoyed first would have been a pair of knickers. Panties. I suppose we’re English so we say knickers at a very young age. And yeah, that was it. It was. Can’t remember if it was mums or sisters, but I just remember that sensation. Bang, there I was.

Jenny: And there’s no going back from that moment. I know myself. Red nails or black?

Katie: Red. I would say to the nails.

Jenny: Would you prefer naughty time with him or with her?

Katie: With her, but I’m quite open to most things, but ideally her.

Jenny: And as the girlie. Now, either fantasy or a real experience. Your preference, A onesome, twosome, threesome or more.

Katie: A threesome would be the perfect one for me.

Jenny: And who is your girl crush?

Katie: My girl crush, I would say is probably Sienna Miller.

Jenny: And what was the last thing that.

Katie: You bought the Last thing I bought when I went was a pink vest. The one that I’m wearing now, a pink lacy vest.

Jenny: Okay, so what are you wearing?

Katie: So right now it’s hold ups with obviously very deep lace trim. The heels are, they’re only about 4 inch small black bodycon, miniskirt, black panties, black bra and the pink vest.

Jenny: And you are absolutely gorgeous.

Katie: Thank you.

Jenny: So I’m wearing a wine red bodycon sequin mini dress with black lace top, ten denier stockings. Thank you. Marks and Spencers. My favourite four inch heels, boots there that are calf length with a little bit of platform, no knickers because I’m a bit naughty and my red nails. So my final question to you is what generation are you? I’m Gen X and that sometimes has an impact on the conversation. But what generation are you?

Katie: I would say I’m Gen X. I was born in the late 60s so I don’t really follow it that much and I’m certainly definitely not Millennium or Gen Z, so I believe I’m Gen X.

Jenny: Okay, so now thank you for those answers. Gives us a really good insight into who Katie is. So we first met online on Instagram and I think it was probably my very first account which has since been banned. I think I’m on my fourth account now. But then you read some of my stories and that’s how we got talking. And what was your experience of reading those stories?

Katie: They were amazing stories. They tuned in and just totally hit my spot. As in the cross dress experience, the being accepted as a crossdresser and yeah, having an experience with totally no judgement apart from acceptance of who you are.

Jenny: Yeah, I think that’s right at the core of the, you know what I want to try and share and normalise I suppose in my own life and also share with the readers. And it is, as I’m sure you’ll agree, it’s a really important aspect of our lives to be seen and accepted and ideally adored for being who we are. Yeah. Deep inside. So tell me about Katie. Who is Katie?

Katie: Well, Katie is in fact I cheeky, cute young girl in her 30s. That is the codesy that presents on the socials. And if I do go out, that is who I imagine myself to be. But that’s who Katie is. When I dress I become Katie, the early 30s, cheeky, sexy, cute little girly.

Jenny: And you do go out fully dressed, do you? But in your mind Katie’s rocking those heels.

Katie: That’s it, exactly that, yeah. But yeah, I do go out. Not so often. It tends to Be more of a winter thing when it’s darker. But yeah, I really enjoy parading Katie. Yes.

Jenny: And what is your experience when you go out and share Katie with the world?

Katie: Much easier than I imagine. Sometimes I. I will take five attempts to even open the door and go out and so as long as the neighbours don’t see me, anyone else would either simply not notice their willpath. They might suddenly stop and think, oh, or sometimes admiring glanced at the legs, which is what I absolutely love in Mythbore. No negative experiences. What you basically do is you just stare straight ahead. You don’t sort of lock eye contact with anyone. You can walk around Primark unnoticed, more or less. So, yeah, I’ve never had a bad experience.

Jenny: And what’s been your experience with other women when they find out and they see who Katie really is and how do they. What’s your experience with them?

Katie: They seem quite accepting of it. There are some that sort of totally don’t understand. But my experiences so far with any woman is quite laid back, quite accepting, furious and sometimes slightly excited sort of thing.

Jenny: Yeah, it’s amazing, isn’t it? That’s very similar to my personal experiences that most particularly women kind of lean in, in a very accommodating way and they don’t think it’s weird or threatening. It’s just. It’s just girls having fun and. Yeah. So what led, what led you to the kind of face swap domination that you have going on Instagram? Why. Why did you start doing that? And I’ve seen that you’ve. You’ve also started doing video as well. So tell us about the. The idea behind that. Because you. You’ve got 20,000 followers on Instagram now, which is huge. Huge. Tell us about that journey.

Katie: I’m so grateful to have grown the account that much. So basically it was when apps came out, I think I was just looking on Instagram one time and I just saw a FaceApp girl and I thought, what last Face app? And that was one where I found that I could dress, take a picture and transform my face into as I perceive Katie to be. And that’s how it all started. I just downloaded an app and I could almost have cried when I sort of saw myself on screen as I want to look, as I appear. And it just went from there. I sort of did the more saucier pictures and outfits and then I got into just swapping my face onto other images, digital creating, so to speak. And yet it just went from there. And the technology has helped me to really, really become Katie, something you just.

Jenny: Said there really touched me because I really understand this and I think this is something that a lot of people who don’t have this part of them, whether you want to call it a kink or however you want to describe it. But you said I almost cried. Yeah, And I really, really understand that. And I’ve shared that level and that depth of emotional release and connection and feeling of being your true self with others. And some people really struggle to understand or they think I’m being slightly dramatic. Others get it. But I just. I wanted to say I really hear that experience for you. I really get it. So let’s deep dive into your genesis if you’re up for it. Partly because I’m writing a biography about me and she, or he and she, you know, the person I was, the person I am, the journey to becoming this, I suppose, integrated version of. Of me. And it’s led me through a lot of soul searching and I’ve spoken to a lot of other people about their journeys as well. But tell me, if you don’t mind, about your childhood. And we’ve already mentioned about your first experience with some good old British knickers and the sensation and the feeling and that obviously unlocked something for you. So tell us about that time in your life.

Katie: In my life, that time was, yeah, it started really, it was pre pubescent that I first became so curious and the way that women could dress and the different styles and the fabrics that seem almost exclusively for women. And then as my life progressed, it did at one time was a very shameful thing for me, certainly. It was certainly not done and you couldn’t be seen or caught to do it. So it’s all done in secret. But then slowly, more and more, you cannot deny yourself. And then you become of an age when you can actually get your own clothing and your own underwear. And it’s really, I would say, sort of only since my 20s, 30s, that I’ve truly, truly become into being. Admitting that I am codesy, whether I had to be totally done in secret or as I now am and single, every sort of at home, every evening, every weekend, I can dress as I please. But it’s been a journey of several years to get through where I am now, I would say.

Jenny: And did your. When you were growing up, as a child, did your family know or suspect and how did that play out for you?

Katie: I don’t think they knew. They may perhaps have suspected on a couple of occasions when sort of the clothing wasn’t where it should have been. That I’d been in there, but I don’t think they even would have connected that. And it would have been for me at that time, in the sort of 70s, 80s, I’d have been totally mortified. And there’s no way I could have sort of come out or admitted it. So it had to be a total total secret. One of your stories, I remember reading, you say that’s locked in a box, it’s tadlocked, it’s buried in the sea. And it had to be like that. It had to be total top secret. But yes, certainly childhood time, that was the ultimate taboo and the ultimate thing that I had to do, certainly to hide a locked door when ideally nobody else was in.

Jenny: Again, you’re describing my childhood as well, and I think it’s very common. And one of the. As you probably know, I did a survey, I’ve done two, actually, one in 24 and one in 25, to really deep dive into girls like us. And it became apparent through the survey that there’s a generational line that’s probably slap bang in the middle of millennials. And elder millennials and older tend to see themselves. This isn’t an absolute by any stretch, but it’s a more kind of leaning. See themselves as we would have called ourselves in the 70s and 80s, transvestites now, cross dressers. And the younger kids, they’re identifying as trans, they are and totally pure, having that ability to quite literally become the other gender, whether that’s just changing your clothes and wearing makeup or whether that’s embracing, you know, drugs and surgery and, you know, good, good for anyone who makes any choice. Because as we both know, this is not an easy road to take. It’s a strange old taboo. It’s almost. It’s weirdly more acceptable to be trans than it is to be a cross dresser. A cross dresser still seems to be one of those things that is people don’t understand very, very much.

Katie: So, yeah, yeah. I think a trans person is now something completely sort of accepted on the high street. As a rule, it depends on the area. But a guy can go to school wearing a dress, which would have been asking to be probably put in a E in my day, as opposed to somebody who just enjoys wearing female clothing and dressing as sexy as they can, but doesn’t necessarily need to do that 24, 7, and live as a woman. They want to live as a glamorous woman when they want to.

Jenny: Yeah. Again, I resonate like there’s a part of me that’s very sad for the child that I was, because he just wanted to wear a dress, it was quite innocent. There wasn’t. It was just an urge and a feeling that. And then once that, once that became, you know, it meant you were mentally ill. Back in those days, obviously you just didn’t tell anybody, let alone, you know, do it in the presence of others, did you? I don’t know whether you can recall your very first time that you, you dressed up with somebody else. Do you recall that time and what was it like?

Katie: I’ve never only ever once actually had any sexual experience where I was dressed. I’ve never actually dressed in the company of somebody and I would so love to do that. I have sort of gone out dressed and just hoped and prayed that somebody may want to just take an interest and then sort of I’ve be able to dress and undress with them. But there’s only ever been the one occasion with a girl where I was able to be dressed in lingerie in an intimate scenario.

Jenny: And how did that feel for you?

Katie: Totally amazing. Although familiar with it, there’s the anti climax of it’s not great as you think it would feel because I think it needed to be ideally a hot relationship when the next time it could be done as I would be seduced as the girl that would be the ideal. There is so, so much that I would love to explore and do as Kate. But yeah, it’s certainly very difficult to find somebody who would understand and accept that we live in hope.

Jenny: Well, I hope you have that experience and we are living into a more progressive world, so.

Katie: Well, from your literature, you’ve certainly done quite well in that department, I understand.

Jenny: Well, yeah, I mean, I’ve been blessed, you know, I suppose even, you know, recording this podcast, I’m a little bit, you know, I push myself out into the world in order to get myself into trouble. And you know, Jenny Raven is an extension of that and she gets me into lots of trouble. And Jenny Raven was only named Jenny Raven in the pandemic when she became an author. But obviously she was part of me for my entire life. She just didn’t have a name. But I’ve got a very, very strong. I think gaydar is not necessarily the right word, but I’ve got this sixth sense that when I’m with somebody, I can tell them that I am, you know, I am this way and then invite them with a very big open door for them to leave to come and play. And I would say almost 50% of the time the girls have said okay and More out of curiosity really. Yeah. And you know, it’s never really led, you know, my current partner, she, you know, we were probably two months into our relationship when I shared with her and There was a 10 second pause and then she smiled and said, okay, show me a closet. And there was no looking back from then. So I’ve been very blessed with an amazing partner, very much so in that department. But those 10 seconds were very long because he could have gone another way. Yeah. So let’s talk about your wardrobe as well, because I realised very recently that my girl wardrobe is bigger than my body wardrobe. Is that the same for you?

Katie: It’s probably equal at the moment, but only because Katie does like to go shopping and throws an awful lot of stuff out. I do have the favourite mini dresses, mini skirt, T shirts. I would say this pretty much equal. Ideally, I think it is going to outgrow my boy wardrobe. Certainly things these days like Amazon, you don’t have to go sneaking into the shops and, and pretend you’re buying something for a female relative, wife, girlfriend. These days you can actually buy all sorts online and it’s much easier to choose and get all the sexy, lacy, silky, whatever you want clothing these days.

Jenny: And what are your favourite clothes? I mean, as a broad generalisation, what would you love to wear day in, day out?

Katie: Day in, day out? I’ve got a floral, very short dress. I’d love to just be able to tuck that on and go out the door. Obviously with underwear or miniskirt, Sperry type miniskirts in pink or black and even sometimes just a T shirt. But as long as it’s pink T shirt that’s very sort of feminine. A T shirt like that or a very lacy or silk bra just concealed beneath a silky blouse or a sort of lacy top, just something that you sort of throw on. Oh, hey, I’m a sexy young lady and here I am. That kind of look.

Jenny: Gorgeous. Gorgeous. I bet you feel absolutely fantastic when you dress like that.

Katie: Oh, absolutely, yes. If you’re not a cross dresser or trend or whatever, it’s only us can know that the chemicals explode in your mind when you put those clothes on and look in the mirror and you get that sensation against your skin. Mental health wise, it is shockingly amazing to be able to dress.

Jenny: Yeah, it’s one of those things that, I mean, I’ve spoken about this on the podcast before. There is a very curious distinction between masculine clothes and feminine clothes and the feeling and the sensation is so remarkably different.

Katie: Absolutely, yeah.

Jenny: Even when you see clothes that look tight fitting in the way that they’re tight fitting on men but tight fitting for women. They’re still completely different. And they’re so stretchy and breathable and you just feel so liberated and free. And then sensation of like Saturn being pulled across nylon is, you know, it’s like electricity going through my body.

Katie: It really is. I don’t know any male clothing which is made of lace or silk or anything like that which would be acceptable attire to general society. Yeah, there are stonely fabrics which are sort of only for a certain gender and I’m happy to wear them and.

Jenny: You know, day to day. How does Katie show up in your life even when you’re out in the world pretending to be a boy? How does she show up and. And nudge you if it’s just quietly in your head or does she do anything else?

Katie: Yes, it’s when a woman walks past, she’s, oh, my God, wouldn’t it be so nice to be able to just wear that skirt as we’re walking to work? Look at those heels. Wouldn’t it be great? Wouldn’t it be amazing to have those boobs just like that so always? And it’s not that one’s leering at a girl, it’s looking at that girl with jealousy thinking, oh, I so want to look like that. Oh, I so want to be able to wear that. And then sort of day to day, you find your mind wandering off to, is it going to be silk or loaths tonight? Oh, it’s been a bitch of a day. I think the holdups are definitely coming out tonight.

Jenny: Gal, Amazing. Again, you’re describing my life. It’s so glorious. Something that a thought that has been. Has come to me as I’ve been writing the book. Do you think Katie has become more and more present in your life as you’ve got older or has she receded?

Katie: She’s got more and more present. Yeah, undoubtedly. Even from. I don’t know if that’s because I am now single. I appreciated so many married guys that feel they could never come out like that, but it’s. Yeah, I. Katie definitely does take over. There’s not a weekend that will go by without me dressing fully. Possibly I’ll go out. Probably I won’t, but Katie has, in fact. Yeah, yeah, Katie is more and more and more myself. And then I have to pretend to be a boy, which can sometimes even feel slightly kinky wearing a pair of boxer shorts because I’m putting underwear on that I wouldn’t normally wear. Yeah, Katie is the main presence in my life.

Jenny: Right. One interesting theory that I started to recognise is that it’s scientifically known as we age, so we start to produce less and less testosterone. And it occurred to me that Jenny has, you know, with each passing year, there’s less testosterone for her to battle through. And I’ve really recognised that. I wake up, I wake up and Jenny’s whispering in my ear. And as I go to sleep, Jenny’s whispering in my ear. And all day long, Jenny’s whispering in my ear.

Katie: Oh, they’re trying to go to sleep. And Katie imagining, well, you know, here we are wearing these silky pyjamas and, yeah, Katie whispers me off to sleep. But, yeah, very much so. I would say 20s and 30s. Yeah, very much so. I get that. So, yeah, I think that some, as your testosterone decreases, you’re more and more happy to allow the girly side in.

Jenny: Right. And you mentioned earlier that you’re now single. I don’t know if you want to share, you know, but was Katie in some ways responsible for you now being single or was that for other reasons?

Katie: It wasn’t the main reason, but it did as things were starting to fall apart. And that was probably the final nail. The longer you leave Katie undiscovered, the bigger the bombshell it will be when she finally comes out. And really, I think it’s a fact of life that sooner or later your Katie, your Jenny, whoever you may be, will be out there and you need her contingency plans to sort of announce her at some points. But, yeah, very much though, it was, let’s say, a final nail in the coffin in that relationship.

Jenny: I’m sorry to hear that. And again, part of the reason I’m writing this book that has taken me much longer to write than anticipated was really a handbook for partners of cross dressers so that they could get a much better handle on what it is and why it’s there and how much it means. And also to get a sense that it’s actually okay, like it’s harmless. And if it’s allowed, if it’s allowed to come out, you know, it probably won’t dominate. Yeah, she’d be very happy playing a couple of times a month. It’s not like every single night.

Katie: I mean, the more something is sort of dark and driven underground, the more it wants to come out. Whereas, yeah, as you say, very much so. If it’s something that’s there and in the open. Yeah, a couple of times a month, maybe, or every week, or if you could just Be your KT whenever you want to be. That would be, yeah, so much better than some sort of underground movement. Very much so.

Jenny: So we’re coming towards the end of the conversation now, which I’ve really enjoyed and can’t tell you how much you feel like a mirror to my personal journey as well. Have you got any questions or thoughts or is there anything you would like to share?

Katie: Well, certainly from reading your experiences, I’m so jealous of the experiences you have had with women where you’ve been able to dress the whole Ruby’s rose thing. And is there any time that you actually wish that you weren’t Jenny? Because certainly as time’s gone on, I’m so happy to be Katie and I don’t feel that. I just wonder with my other fellow girls if there are that they say, well, actually, maybe ideally I wouldn’t be. I can’t personally imagine not wanting to be Katie, but I wonder if you ever have felt that she wished this wasn’t part of my life.

Jenny: No, there’s like, if I’m honest, I think Jenny’s the best part of me. She’s strong and she’s precocious and audacious and very naughty and she’s pushy and knows what she wants. I think there’s a number of very interesting, interesting things. One of the things I’ve been doing in the book is I’ve been going back to all my past relationships to talk about Jenny because there’s only been one relationship where Jenny didn’t at some point raise her head and say hello. And paradoxically, that one relationship was with a woman who since transitioned to become a man. And, you know, I’ve got to have that conversation with him now and say, hey, there was this thing that you didn’t know or did you know. And so that’s been, you know, really great. Going back to all these past relationships and talking, you know, these are these serious, serious relationships, not, you know, flings or one night stands, which I’ve never really done. So. But the one thing that I have noticed is that allowing Jenny to come out and play fully also means that the masculine version of me can also do the same. And some, you know, sometimes Jenny’s. I always characterise it as sometimes Jenny will go to sleep or she’ll go into a coma and she just disappears completely disappears for a while. And then the masculine version of me is like, I’m now going to take you and pillage you like a Viking would a village.

Katie: Recently moving house when it all gets complicated. Katie Thinks I’ll see. Sub this, darling. I’m just going to go off and look at my clothes. You can do all the paperwork and you can have all this stress. But also, having said that, if there’s paper up to be done, Katie will dress as the office executive and she’ll get that paper up done a lot better and more efficiently and quicker than the male me would do it.

Jenny: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I did a podcast very recently with a, a sex therapist. And you know, we talk at some time about erotic energy and how like when, when I am Jenny, she infuses me with this energy that is indescribable. And you know, without wanting to sound overly dramatic, there’s been times in my life where perhaps it is overly dramatic to say that Jenny saved my life. But like on very, very long drives, like, I’m getting tired and I’m like, I don’t know if I can do this. And Jenny would pop up and say hello. And suddenly I’m incredibly awake because I’m flooded with all that erotic energy and it’s so delicious and divine that I just love it. So, yeah, I mean, I am me. I am part male, I’m part female, and I enjoy both. I enjoy Jenny more than the male a lot of the time. But I think, you know, maybe that will change, maybe the pendulum will swing. It was definitely different in my 30s. I was very focused on my career and I would say for almost an entire decade she was very much in the background. But she’s out now in her 6 inch platform heels, strutting the sidewalk like a supermodel, saying, bitches, come on. So, yeah, it’s slightly terrifying and exhilarating all at once. Yeah, it’s electrifying. And I just, yeah, I can’t get enough. So I just wanted to end with, I always ask everybody this question, but if you could go back in time and offer, let’s say, the, I suppose, the version of you that was facing the biggest crossroads as a young person, I suspect that was probably somewhere between the ages of 10 and 20, you know, maybe 15 or 13 or 18 or whatever. What advice do you think you would offer yourself? And by, by extension, I suppose anybody who’s young and listening to this now, the wisdom of like the both of us Gen X trannies, what advice do you think you would offer yourself?

Katie: I would say enjoy it. Don’t worry if you don’t want to come out, you don’t have to. But just whenever you can find Katie, be with Katie. Enjoy the sexual energy. That she will bring you the sexual experience that only being your Katie, your girl side can give you. Just embrace that, enjoy that. Do not feel any guilt, don’t feel under any pressure to come out all the time. But just make sure that whenever you can, you get with Katie and become Katie or whoever you may call yourself. Just don’t be scared and enjoy it.

Jenny: Brilliant advice. Thank you so much for that. So where can people find you on Instagram?

Katie: So I am katieg410 Katie Gardner on Instagram songs and not Shadowbanns because she does tend to do some naughty things sometimes. Little minx that I am and down. But yeah, I’m Katie G410. You should be able to find me there. And yeah, enjoy my pictures, enjoy my stories.

Jenny: Amazing. Thank you so much. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation and if you’re listening out in the world, I hope you have too. Please drop a comment or follow us. Follow Katie, follow Jenny and thank you again for joining me today Katie. And we’ll see you you it’s been amazing.

Katie: Thank you so much feeling.

Jenny: You’re so welcome and we’ll see you on on the next podcast. Thank you girls for listening to my podcast. I really appreciate you listening all the way through to the end. If you’ve enjoyed what you’ve heard, then please consider going over to my we*****@********en.com and join my mailing list. Then you’ll get information about of my very, very naughty things that I send out on a regular basis. You’ll also get access to a couple of my free stories. You can either read them or better still you can experience them as an audio journey where I will directly encourage you to dress up for me in your favourite costume and do very, very, very unspeakably naughty things. I can’t wait for you to send me photos of the that experience with me. So please do join **@********en.com.

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