Jenny: So welcome to this podcast with me, Jenny Raven. I’m delighted, thrilled, a little bit more excited than normal because I have a genuine entrepreneur in the field of erotica with me, Anna Richards, the creator of Frolic Me. Anna, how are you doing?

Anna: I’m doing very well, thank you, Jenny. I’m really delighted to be here and looking forward to chatting away with you.

Jenny: We’re going to have a fabulous conversation. We just had a little chat and I had to stop the chat because it was getting so juicy. We had to get it onto tape. I’m going to start with a bunch of very, very simple quick fire questions just to get us into the vibe of erotica. So, straight off the bat, red or black?

Anna: Red.

Jenny: PVC or rubber?

Anna: Pvc.

Jenny: Satin or lace?

Anna: Ooh, lace.

Jenny: Watch or be watched?

Anna: Be watched.

Jenny: Ideal height of heels for Playtime.

Anna: Oh, interesting idea. I was about to say whether, you know, heels stay on, but I would

Jenny: agree with that, by the way, for Playtime.

Anna: Also depends who you’re with, but say they’re three inches.

Jenny: Preferred erotic medium. Photos, video, or words.

Anna: Oh, this is tough because for me, they’re all so powerful. I love words. I love the language of eroticism that you can’t always convey on the camera. So I might actually say words, but it’s so close.

Jenny: I would agree with that. And we can definitely dive into that in the podcast. And what is your secret sensual weapon?

Anna: Secret sensual weapon. Well, that’s a tough one. I’ll think about it and come back and give you a much better idea or an answer later, I think.

Jenny: I mean, not for me to put words into your mouths, but I think you actually may have created your sensual weapon in Frolic Me.

Anna: Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I’ll take that one.

Jenny: And finally, how would you describe yourself?

Anna: Just. Just a woman who managed to allow herself to play up to an alter ego and enjoy the naughty fun that can be had.

Jenny: Fantastic question. And what a parallel journey we’re enjoying. So tell me about Frolic Me and how it came to be, just so that all the people who are listening, because they may or may not be aware of the site. But yeah, share with us what it’s all about and how you ended up creating it.

Anna: Yes, thank you. I mean, it has been a journey, it has been an adventure. And I’ll be absolutely honest, if I thought about this 20 years ago, even sort of, I mean, borderline 15, but certainly 20 years ago, this wasn’t even in my mind. I wasn’t in the industry, I wasn’t in the world of erotica. I was a creative person. But. And this is why I sort of feel, you know, I was just. Just a woman in her 40s, married with kids and really kind of opening my eyes to what was actually out there. And this was both from a personal view of where I was at it, from a sexual sort of interest, but also from a business. I was involved in a lot of brands and so on, and I really just couldn’t get my head around why. Why I couldn’t really find a brand where I felt represented. And the world is so big when it comes to the world of adult, and yet I just didn’t see my desires as a woman being represented. There was no female pleasure, there was no erotic tension or beauty, there was no focus on desire or intimacy. And it was just so male centric. And I just felt women just weren’t being catered for. So I had this sort of seed of an idea and I had a blog that I started because I just kind of wanted to play with the concept of my style of erotica. And for me, it’s so much in the mind what takes something from being just a sexual moment to something that takes it to a different level. So I had a small blog and I used to create sort of very short little erotic storeys linked to maybe a beautiful image. And I’d create this sort of tension of what was really going on and explore this potential erotic scene that was happening. And I just suddenly found that I was getting that following and I sort of felt that I had the idea, but did I also have other people sort of interested in the same? So it went from there to realising one day I actually had to create films. Why weren’t we carrying this erotic narrative across onto short adult films? And I’m talking so 20, 25 minute films. Because, you know, the world of adult was just very, very good at tech, but very poor at creativity. You know, they were always at the forefront of streaming of, you know, video on demand and so on, before the rest of mainstream world was sort of catching up on it. So that world of adult were very, very good at that. But creatively it was shocking. It just became cheap, gratuitous, unimaginative. And yeah, that’s kind of how it all started.

Jenny: I mean, there’s so much to unpack in what you’ve just Shared there. I mean, I’ve always felt that a good friend of mine who’s also an erotica writer, she characterises it as men watch porn and women read smut. And I think, you know, it’s a very broad way of seeing it. That’s a good, a good way to see it. And I think another way, which is where I think your site and your mission and what you create and put in the world really resonates with me personally and I think will resonate with my community and people who are like me is that the importance of the foreplay, the erotica, the tease, rather than the, you know, again, characterising, I guess, mostly American porn, which is every hole’s a gold and wham, bam, thank you, man. Done and dusted in 10 minutes. Like, I would be very personally disappointed if my, my time in a sexual space was over in 10 minutes. I would rather have 10 hours. And why not have 10 hours if you can sustain for that period? I think that’s the distinction between the feminine erotic and the masculine urge to orgasm. Like that’s the prime objective. So just kind of, I suppose, riffing on that. How have you, how have you made your work distinct from what, you know, again, mainstream porn puts out there on a second by second basis, it seems.

Anna: Yeah, well, first of all, I always felt that it needed to be seen through the eyes of a woman. A woman needed to create this, to actually understand what I mean. A lot of people give me the label of feminist porn or okay, I’ll take that ethical for sure as well. But for me it’s also just about understanding what pleasure means and actually looking at ways of portraying it. So for me, it’s always been about the woman’s pleasure, that it can be as kinky, it can be even sometimes a little bit rough, it can be soft, it can be romantic, it can be voyeuristic, it can be lesbian, it can be all those things. But at the heart of it, we had to focus and it’s important to understand the woman’s perspective and the woman’s pleasure during this. So there’s more sort of context of who the individuals or people are within a scene, but that it’s always pleasure focused first and foremost. And that’s something that mainstream porn and particularly with the dominance of sort of tube sites where it just became cheap, user uploaded content, it just became more and more gratuitous and graphic because they were just chasing traffic. And so now we’ve got such a dominance of tube sites. And I don’t think People always realise that if they go and search for anything of a sexual nature, they will just be inundated with so much tubes, so many tube sites, because they’ve just over dominated, oversaturated the market. And I think now, unfortunately, they’ve taken the context of what porn is meant to be about, because now we sort of see that what we’re searching for. When you’re presented with so much of that gratuitous imagery, you kind of think, well, that’s what porn must be about. And they’re missing all the nuanced passion, led desire, led the intimate sex, the connections, what heightens a moment for those people involved. And that’s sadly what’s happened. They’ve lost that sense of, for me, the erotica.

Jenny: And of course, you know, many of the tube sites, I don’t know the exact statistics, but I think most of them are all owned by one or maybe two companies and they’re really. They’re just hoovering up in that, you know, uber capitalist the way that the world seems to be. Be going. And you are out there as an independent producer creating stuff for not really a niche audience, quite a large audience, but somehow you’re ending up being independent and niche in that way, simply because of the way of market economics seem to work in the way that Google operates as a search engine. You know, these are all challenges that we’re both facing in different ways. And when you said ethical porn, let’s drill into that, because I think that’s something that I find, you know, really important and I’m pretty sure the listeners will as well, to know what that really means.

Anna: Well, I just. I wasn’t from the industry and therefore I came to this filmmaking process with no, if you like, almost no real preconceived ways of doing everything. I addressed it in a way that I’m going to be shooting a short film and yes, there’s going to be some real sex in there. And I just couldn’t understand how it seemed impossible or how the mainstream world couldn’t be seen to actually both produce and consume porn in an ethical way. So for me, it’s all about really the consensual pleasure of all involved, making sure everybody’s a very collaborative process and everybody’s looked after both in front of and behind the camera. It’s all very, as I said, when I talk about collaborative, that the models I work with, I work with a lot. Some of them are friends, some of them are lovers, some of them are married, and they’re very much involved in the process of what it is I’m looking to produce what the style, the theme, that sort of genre of the setup is. And for me, it’s like any other short film production is meant to be about. You’ve got the scene set, you’ve got makeup, you’ve got wardrobe, you’ve got so on. And then it’s just also about what. What is the sexual element? What is it that we’re trying to portray? What. What makes this a little bit special to that of another film? So if you’re taking a voyeuristic style, you know, it’s. It’s. Everybody’s aware of how we’re going to shoot it to make it seem like, okay, is someone watching them? Or can we see that person watching them? Or how is that going to play out? So and so, for me, I just don’t understand why more can’t be done to actually have more ethical porn and actually raise the standards of quality and

Jenny: care for everybody involved and that quality and care. I remember seeing a documentary on Channel 4, or maybe it was five, maybe 20 years ago, that kind of skirted into the porn industry and it was quite upsetting. I remember one particular. There were a couple of guys doing a shoot with a young woman and she seemed to be enjoying the whole experience, but the conclusion of it, she’s kind of dumped on the street in the rain and kind of left there with the camera crew going, what. What just happened? Like, did all that. And it was really. It was very obvious that it was very much take, take, take what we want for our. Whatever our reasons are, whether they’re commercial or sexual or whatever it was. And it always struck me as, it doesn’t need to be that way. And, you know, if it’s an industry, if it’s a business, then if we all treat it as an industry and business, not that we need to necessarily unionise, but if we operated as though there were a union and that there were people looking after everybody, everything would flourish and it would just elevate standards, which is, I think, you know, what your work clearly strives for is elevated standards within an industry that doesn’t necessarily seek to elevate its own standards.

Anna: Yeah, no, I’d agree. And the more we can be seen to be transparent, which was something that was always really important for me, is when people come to the site, they come to frolic me, they log on and I’m on the homepage. This is who I am, I’m here, this is my site, and people know who’s behind it. Who is making this? You don’t get that in most mainstream porn. And when I refer to mainstream porn, obviously there’s a lot of tube sites in there, but even a lot of the other sites that are also owned by, as you mentioned earlier, a few very, very big players. You do question who’s actually making the films that people are watching. And I always say this when people say, oh, gosh, yes, ethical. And I say, be careful because it can also be a buzzword that has actually been wrongly used like a good marketing. And I sometimes come across some sites and they, they boldly say, oh, it’s ethical. And I think even if you go into pornhub, you can probably see that they’ll be claiming it to be ethical. But thing is, what you always have to look at is who is actually producing this content, who is the one that knows who these models are, that is working with these models, that is creating the style, the themes and so on. And Amma, that’s, I think, the easiest way for you to always judge whether you believe a site to be ethical is if you really understand who’s making it in the first place. And sadly, there aren’t enough people actually producing it that can stand by the product, if you like, and say, I’ve made this. You know, this is. This is what I do, this what I enjoy doing. It’s filmmaking, but I just pack it with some fabulous sex and eroticism and surely, what’s wrong with that?

Jenny: So let’s actually talk about your platform and what it does, because there is, obviously there’s a big video content, but there is also written erotica as well, isn’t there? And audio. And how do you find your tribe? How do they respond to those different mediums?

Anna: Well, I always started, I mean, Frighten Me has been going now for sort of 10 years. It launched back in 2015 and when I started, I always wanted to have storeys with the films because they actually all link. So the concept was always that people couldn’t, if you like, choose the medium of choice. And for women, as you touched on earlier erotica, reading erotica has always been huge because of the fantasy element, being able to indulge your mind into that scene and create your own fantasy from the words you’re reading and so on. And for me, I just felt if I could offer both that alternative medium. So for a lot of women that maybe haven’t really come to watch an erotic film before, but they feel comfortable watching Reading the Storey, then fine, come and enjoy the Storeys. That’s what we do as well. But then the storey is also linked to the film. And for those that like to also watch a film as well and see a visual content, then you get the added benefit of having that extra layer of erotica coated onto the scene, so that with writing, you can get deeper into the context of who the people are that are involved. Did they know each other before? Were they lovers? Were they strangers? Had they just met in a lift? Had they just seen each other, but never took it any further? To actually understand where this heightened pleasure is potentially coming from and the language and the narrative can actually already fuel you into having a much bigger, maybe appreciation of just that erotic vibe that’s actually happening within the film. Or if you’re someone that just likes to watch something visually come and watch the film. And then in 2019, we actually introduced the audio because that was a new context where, for those who it’s a bit on the go, we’ve all got our smartphones and everything else, you can actually listen to the storey. So maybe you’re sat on the tube, you want to listen to the storey as you’re kind of unwinding from your day and then get home and go, hey, might even watch the film. So they’re all interlinked. And that was always the idea that I could keep hyping this level of erotica by either listening or reading the storey.

Jenny: That’s really fascinating. And I love that, you know, you’ve got an immersion here where you’ve got multiple access points that you can take to a different levels of intensity, where speaking to different senses, and it’s almost like the Marvel universe, where, you know, characters are available in different. Different environments. And that. That actually accidentally happened for me in my writing as well, where I would set out to write a storey and then other characters from other storeys would just demand to be in them and come charging in, take control, and suddenly we’re on a whole new, different adventure that I hadn’t anticipated, but which was way more fun. And what we’ve found is that the people who like my work, they are now interacting with me and those characters in a way that isn’t the way that porn works. You know, porn is very much like there is an experience here that’s five minutes long or 10 minutes long, and you kind of do that experience and then it’s thrown away. And what I’m finding is that people who like what I’m doing, they’re kind of coming back for the same characters in the same universe, or at least similar characters in the same universe. And they like that storey, that immersion into something more than just the climax. And that’s even bled its way into Instagram. And I’d like to talk about your Instagram experience as well, because I think we had something similar. But last year, what happened for me personally was I had an Instagram account and I was just posting stuff and it was growing, and then I had a key conversation with my partner in the summer, effectively saying, do whatever you want, just stay safe, you know, let’s have fun. So I kind of went a little bit crazy and started creating stuff on an industrial level, which went to Instagram. And then my Instagram blew up overnight and I went from 3,4000 followers to 20,000 and then 40,000, and then the Instagram police came in and shut me down overnight. And I still don’t know why. I’ve since got a new Instagram account. But what I think that speaks to is this uneasy relationship that you have and that I have with certainly the financial industries, but even web hosting, where it’s quite puritanical, quite conservative, while simultaneously like, evil as. I don’t know whether that’s the right way to describe it, but I’m always struck by that. Like, it’s almost like a friend of mine once characterised it. It’s like, it’s not that you got your trousers down, it’s that you got your. Caught. You got caught with your trousers down. And it feels like that’s how big business is operating is as long as they don’t look like they’re doing it, they’re okay, because of course they get the clicks or the percentages or whatever it is that they’re chasing. But what has been your experience with big business out there?

Anna: Oh, golly. Well, I mean, just even touching on Instagram, for sure, we’ve had our. Our main Instra count down four times. Even my own one, which is with my name, Anno against it, I lost that one. And that one I really struggle with because it was just about me going about, doing well, meeting people, you know, even. Even sort of commenting on. On, say, doing a podcast and, and whatever. So I. I couldn’t. I couldn’t help thinking, thinking, well, why, what is it? The hashtags. I know one of the last times our main account went down, I did sort of go, this is crazy, because we were so super careful with any imagery. I think I was there going, okay, I can see a bit of shoulder skin, you know, is that it? You know, but you have to be so careful. It was about words, so they would pick up if you said pleasure. Clearly, you’ll notice any Insta account that’s involved in sexual space. So whether they are a sex toy company or maybe they’re a. Ooh, a sex educator or whatever, you’ll notice the language changes because they don’t want to be picked up talking about sex, but they want to talk about sex so that you’ll suddenly see segs or different spellings. And you can’t help going, oh, this is. This is getting ridiculous, isn’t it? What’s wrong with saying sex? You know, obviously, nobody was going as far as to show it, but even just the language. So I think the last time we went down, it was potentially to do with a hashtag. I know we’re having to be very, very careful just what. What we actually put out there. Um, I find we’ve had all sorts of other things. It could be a software provider that just. Is a software provider for emails. I mean, I’ve. We’ve lost that. And that I found was. Was crazy because this was just our email function to actually reach out very, very safely about some of our storeys and so on to our own database of people that had signed up to be on our newsletter. So this wasn’t going outside of the remit of being frolic me. But that was just an email provider sort of software provider sort of going, oh, no, we can’t work in adult. And I’m sort of thinking, are you looking in on what’s it. You’re just the software, for heaven’s sake, you know, we’re not actually sending it to you, we’re sending it to. And then it’s very hard because our members would suddenly reach in and go, I. I didn’t get an email. Why? And you had to say, oh, sorry. Just. Just having to rethink how we do it now. Certainly financial. It frustrates the hell out of me. I’ve had battles with, you know, PayPal. I’ve had battles with other things as well that I think that the subtler signs of censorship that I think a lot of people don’t realise is when they come to a site and they try and pay, so they’re using their card or whatever and it gets declined, and then we’ll get a message coming through support, and people will say, oh, I don’t understand it. I’ve just been to Marks and Spencer’s and it’s working perfectly fine. And I’ve come here to now buy a membership and I’m denied. And it’s not us denying them, it’s the bank silently going, oh, this is a little bit different. This is an online adult site and you don’t normally spend here and we’re going to be a bit sensitive, oversensitive and we’ll decline it. And people don’t realise that. It’s not us saying we don’t want you to join, it’s just banks sometimes becoming incredibly sensitive for no real reason. That’s the annoying thing. And also how people want to pay. That’s, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I just want to use my Apple Pay or I want to use Google Pay. It’s my, it’s my money. And you’re going, yep, yep. Unfortunately we’re not yet signed up with some of these very good sort of E wallet solutions that we’re all using in other day to day life. So it’s things like that that can be really frustrating. That on the one hand these credit card companies and banks make very, very good money because they overcharge us. And yet equally, it’s almost like running a business with your hand, one arm behind your back of trying to sort of ensure that not only are you going to be crippled when payments do come in because that’s the nature of the beast, but actually sometimes you can’t even take the payment in the first place. So I do find that is very, very frustrating when you’re trying to be very transparent, open and professional as a business and a platform. So, I mean, I do hope things will change. There’s always another alternative, there’s always another route to take. But it can be frustrating when you’re just, you’re working along one way and you’re kind of going. And frustrating for an individual when they just want to pay and enjoy the site. Why not? It’s a perfectly legal site for adults and it’s frustrating if they can’t actually log on and buy a membership.

Jenny: It often does feel like you’re kind of almost being forced to join a cartel. Like the big porn industry have obviously figured it out and who they get to work with. And I’ve had that feeling as well of being pushed in that direction, like, should I be hosting on one of those sites that one of those platforms that allows you to host adult content and it’s all a little bit, it starts to feel, it’s not dark web, but it starts to feel a little bit seedier and a little bit like, do I really want to give my credit card over to that company? So again, that’s, you know, and then in the midst of all of that, there’s you and I both saying, can we do this ethically? And yet you’re kind of being pushed into, I wouldn’t say criminal underworld, but definitely more fringe way of doing things. And even Amazon, someone. I did a series of interviews with erotic authors in my space a couple of years ago. We interviewed 30 people about their experiences and the biggest name in that, that group is a writer called Nikki Crescent. And overnight Amazon shut them down. No excuse, no reason, they were just gone. And it’s bizarre because in Amazon’s terms and conditions there is a whole, you know, you can’t write erotica and yet there is a section when you’re publishing it and says, is this erotica? Yes. Tick. And then it goes into the erotica ception and they got this weird thing called the dungeon where you can be published but you’re also hidden and you find your book is in the dungeon. So then you have to go and like you said, you, you change the language in the tagline or the title of the book, you change the book cover and eventually you get out of the dungeon. It’s kind of a bit crazy.

Anna: It’s a big cat and mouse.

Jenny: Yeah.

Anna: Any other business and we will be very open and, and, and so on, but it’s, it’s very two faced.

Jenny: I’d like to talk about my community as well and how, how what your experiences have been. Because we talked about obviously your site is being built for women and you know, does that. How, how, how what’s been your experience with trans women or people who are non binary or on. I think actually we had a conversation before the podcast about the kind of frustration with labels and I’m fully on board with that and I would much rather just say there is a spectrum, we’re all on it. You know, most of us have a response towards sexuality. Some of us lean towards more feminine, some more masculine. I lean towards more feminine. I think my readers do too. So maybe if we just characterise it as that. But have you had any experience there? And what experience has that, that been like for you and what are your thoughts on it?

Anna: Yeah, I mean I’m always thrilled when I get responses from individuals and they tell me how they’ve come to the site and what joy and fun they get from the site and knowing what films they love and so on and I’m fascinated. I’d love to hear more from the trans community as well and, and that would be really, really great. Because for me it. It’s all about. I’m so with you in the respect that our sexuality is such a journey and it will change. You know, we may start off thinking we’re. We’re a particular person here, but then we go on this journey and influences and understanding our sexuality and so on over different stages of our life or will change. So I, I’m always one to say I, I’m a fluid person. I don’t really want to be too confined to be here or there. Although ironically, I, I do sadly have to have categories and so on. So I do have to bring labels in because otherwise we’ve got over 550 films. If you want to come in and I don’t know, want to watch a particular style of genre, then it’s annoying if you can’t sort of get down to which. Which of those films. So we do sort of have that. But one. One area that actually has proved of great interest and is really for a lot of people they feel really hits the mark with themselves and frolic me is. Is we. We started doing a lot of bisexual threesomes where I really wanted to just continue to exp. Explore just hedonistic pleasure. That’s whatever your sexuality is. It’s more about this sharing of just giving pleasure to one another. And so I have found that those have been films that really have garnered the most interest, the most comments. Certainly if you just look down some of our comments, the ones that really went into many, many, many, many, many comments will be when we’ve done those style of films because it sort of unearths a lot of conversation where I’ll have couples where they’re saying, oh, we’re very much, we’re heterosexual or whatever. However, you’ll then have the male partner there saying, actually, but I’ve really wanted to explore that side and never had a chance. So maybe this is just opening their eyes and maybe the woman saying, oh my God, I’d love it if my. My. My male partner was more interested in sharing this time with another man with me and so on. So it sort of opens up dialogue, which I found has been fascinating. And whether it’s something anybody ever steps and actually experiences in their own life or just has it as that talking point or that fantasy aspect, it’s more the fact that I think for women it’s so much easier for us to be bi curious. Whereas I feel it’s much, much harder for men to actually explore other sides of their sexuality and not feel they have to conform as a Sort of, you know, that sort of CIS male and that, that I think is hard. Whereas I think for women we, we, we can be far more open and, and explore without with far greater ease. And I think we touched on earlier as well how the younger generations, they’re entering a much bigger era of fluid gender, sexuality, openness, eroticism than I feel you and I ever did. So, and of course we’re constantly learning. But it’s lovely when I look and sort of see that, that young people don’t have the hang ups, you know, it’s like, oh well, they go with the flow as opposed to feeling, oh no, I can only be here, I only be there because there’s so much to explore. If you could but sort of open your eyes sometimes and allow yourself just to have that opportunity.

Jenny: Yeah, again, so much to unpack there. But one of the things you just touched on, which is very prescient for my community and even my own personal journey, being a CIS male born into a CIS male body, having a fairly traditional upbringing, but having this part of me that became very present age 5 and had to go. And it was fine as a very young child. It was, you know, know, it was frowned upon, but it was silly games. Then I hit puberty and sexuality and it was like a kind of nuclear explosion inside me that couldn’t, that couldn’t go anywhere. So it obviously went inward and became shame and guilt and would go back into Pandora’s box for long periods of time and then explode out again and then go back into the box. You’ll hear the cross dressing community regularly talk about going on spending splurges and then purging and getting rid of everything you bought out of shame. But three or four years ago I put myself into therapy to figure out why I was dissatisfied with life. And this became a very big part of the conversation and how to effectively explore this part of myself because as you said, it’s very difficult for, you know, traditionally masculine energy to say, I would like to explore that because it is frowned upon. You know, in the best, in even the widest and broadest thinking of circles, people still raise an eyebrow. It’s a strange, it’s a strange position we occupy as society that the youngsters, as you said, don’t seem to have a problem with. And it’s very generational. Elder Millennials, Gen Xers and, and older seem to have this, we’re kind of all waking up. Like maybe it’s that we see the younger people and we’re like being inspired by them. Maybe it’s, you know, my testosterone level is dropping and so there’s less for my feminine to fight against. Maybe it’s that. Maybe it’s. We could see the light at the end of the tunnel ago, if not now, when.

Anna: Yes.

Jenny: And so all of those factors are playing in to kind of unlock us at this time in our lives and also at this time in society and culture. And it’s fascinating. I get lots of messages from people really resonating with the storeys and the podcast and actually something you just touched on as well. I just wanted to resonate with or to encourage with the readers or the listeners of the podcast is please do write to Anna, please do write to me and say, I listen to the podcast, I had this experience, or I read your book or I saw your films. Do feedback for two reasons. One is it’s really great to have actual feedback so that we can know how to better serve people. And secondly, because it’s just really nice to hear from people you create stuff for and to know that, you know, we’re both making a difference in the world in our different ways, but we’re out there fighting the good fight. Maybe that’s a little bit egotistical, to put it that way, but we’re out there exploring and it does feel like. Often walk. I feel like I’m wandering in a dark room with my hands in front of me, not quite sure of what’s out there. I can maybe see the next foot or foot and a half, but beyond that it’s kind of dark and wouldn’t say scary, but it’s unknown. And so just to get a little bit of feel, feedback from people is. Is. Is really, really lovely. And what has been your experience when people feed back to you?

Anna: Oh, my God, I’ve had incredible feedback and I. I probably didn’t ever realise the sort of feedback I was going to get until it started to sort of pour in. And it’s been all sorts. It’s been from couples just going, I’m so thrilled that we found you. This is something we’ve really explored together and it’s made such a difference to our journey. Individuals saying, oh, well, you know, I had a very old widower who said, oh, my goodness, I found your. Your site. And it reminded me of times I spent with my dear, dear, I think, Jack, or whoever he was. And she just sort of felt that it was allowing her to go back to a time she had that was very alive and passionate and she was thrilled to have found it. And then even at the end sort of said, but listen, dear, is this porn? You know, so it wasn’t the case of the. She was aware exactly what it was, but it was something that brought her joy. And I do think we mustn’t ever lose sight of. Ultimately, this isn’t meant to be anything that is going to. From my perspective, I only ever want this to bring sort of joy and fun to people’s lives. I don’t want people to be too serious about it, too, too hung up about it. It’s not meant there to give the wrong context or narrative. This is about pleasure and about joy. And for me, that’s really, really important that people view it as such. It is fantasy. And there’s nothing wrong with engaging in our fantasy. We need to, it’s important. It’s part of our who we are. We need to step into that. But I’ve also, it’s also gone all the way through to helping people who have had cancer. And I’ve had oncologists actually reach out and say, you know, you’ve helped some cancer sufferers because actually sex is part of our health and well being and they needed to help stimulate their libido and just have those moments, hey, guess what? How are we going to do it? It’s our mind. We’ve got to stimulate our mind. And that is what erotica does. So whether you watch it, you listen to it, you read it, you hear it, whatever, it’s there to stimulate our mind. And that’s our biggest sexual organ. So by. And hence the fantasy, why fantasy is so important for us. So for me to sort of hear that it’s helped a couple on a journey where their life for one of them was short and it brought some joy and fun to them. I mean, where’s the harm? Where’s the harm there? So for me, I find it’s very touching when you get that kind of response and people say, oh, don’t stop, keep going. So that’s really. It really does touch my heart when I hear that.

Jenny: I would take it one step further for you. I do think you’re making a very significant difference in the world. And I think that should be acknowledged and lauded for what it really, really is. In a previous podcast, I chatted with this amazing woman from the Northwest, Zorora, who’s a sex therapist and a sex worker. And she. We talked at length about how she helps people with effect. You can probably categorise most people in this bracket as people who are either kind of unseen or unacknowledged. In society. But, you know, all sorts of people, people who are, you know, have, have kinky hang ups all the way through to people who have genuine disabilities. And I think, you know, in, in culture and in media, we tend to see sex as like this thing that happens between two young, beautiful people and, you know, all the variations that come with that. But as you said, you got your pensioners who are a bit horny and like they’re not being really acknowledged as existing, let alone, you know, having a place to go. And I think that’s where you step in and make a really big difference in the world because you have that ethical mindset and you have the service mindset as opposed to, you know, I suppose, dangling a piece of candy that the main porn industry tends to do. And like you said, the erotica speaking to the mind, being healing. And I get like, if we were, you know, 30,000 years ago, we would probably have been shamans or, you know, the witches at the end, you know, living down the end of the street who would help people with their problems. And so I do think it’s kind of in our DNA to do what we do and to help people. And the way that we do that is through, through erotica. And it’s quite an important calling in my view. So, okay, I think we’re kind of coming towards the end of our time. If you could go back in time now and speak to your younger self, what do you think you would say to your younger self about your career, about your sexuality, about enjoying this one thing we have called life? What do you think you would say?

Anna: And not, not to fear and worry so much about what other people think. That stems across how I was maybe personally and also the fact of when I then started this journey with, with Frolic me. Because why, you know, I often think, why didn’t I start it earlier? Why did I wait till I was in my. Well into my 40s before I ventured on this? And I, and I think a lot of it came about because we overthink too much about what other people would always think about us. And rather than sometimes just going, I’m not doing any harm, this is for me, those close to me are fine, go on the journey. Don’t always be so fearful of that challenge or as I said, what, what could happen. Because often a lot of things we worry about never happen anyway. So I think that’s possibly what I would have said and just be more relaxed about taking that step.

Jenny: We ran a survey. In fact, we run 2. 1 in 24 and 25, where I reached out to my cross dressing and trans community asking them all sorts of questions. And I asked that same question, what advice would you give? And almost everybody said exactly what you just said, which is, stop worrying about other people’s opinions, get in your heels, enjoy it and strut your stuff, baby. Yeah, I fully endorse it. I wish, you know, I wish I had the courage to fully embrace that. I’m on the journey to fully embracing it and others are coming along on that journey with me. But it’s a thing to battle that decades and decades of shame and guilt and meaning and. But I’m on the way and it’s a wild, wild ride. Now, how can people find you? What are your socials? What’s your site? How do people join up?

Anna: Well, very simply, if you just google frolicme.com you’ll find us. We battle hard against all those big tube sites so that we also rank well when it comes to other sort of search terms and so on. But if you just put in frolicme or one word dot com, you can find us. You can also find us on Instagram. We still are there. So we’ve got frolicmeofficial, which is if you like the. The more the site led insta and then you’ve got frolicmeanna and you’ll see me on my journey of all the things I get up to and talks and the TV I was on over the weekend and all various other things. So you can find out what I get up to in my journey and some of the people I meet.

Jenny: Well, thank you, Anna. It’s been an amazing hour. I can’t wait to get this edited and sent over to you. And thank you so much for your time and continue, please do continue on your journey of making a significant difference in the world.

Anna: Thank you. Thank you. And likewise, Jenny. It’s been really fabulous chatting and we could have actually carried on way longer. There’s so, so much to unpack with our conversations and experiences.

Jenny: I. That always happens with all of my guests. Or like we good than an hour? Could we have another three? Yeah, exactly. Fantastic. All right, well, thank you so much.

Anna: Pleasure.